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1  Mineserver / Plugins / Re: The new Plugin API on: May 26, 2011, 11:18:15 pm
The best API would be some kind of integration with the new Bukkit server API. Then you'd instantly get access to 100's of plugins.

Instant access to 100's of plug-ins + Bukkit's horrible Quality Assurance, and attitude.

So far Mineserver seems leaps and bounds beyond Bukkit in maturity alone, and that by itself will reflect in the difference in professionalism that I believe will be reflected in the Mineserver project over Bukkit, which is pretty chaotic, immature, and totally oblivious to the needs of the community or server admins as demonstrated by the lack of any vector for the community of large servers that exist "herocraft, godcraft, etc..) to supply direct and critical feedback about bugs they are all experiencing to the developers at Bukkit - and that just does not work.

Taking a week to accept testimony AKA complaints from major servers complaining on a log-in/out lag bug is 6 days too many.  And nothing proves more of what I am saying than one simple glance at the Bukkit Forums main page - Not a single sub-forum for posting bugs. Oh but wait, you may say there is some JIRA or something like that...Sorry regular people don't ever follow those and the masses do not, so if you need to get the most information you make it easy for those with that information to give it you.  Yes it may be willy nilly and some idjits will just post "IT BROKE MY SERVER" - but many more of us will post the steps, the details, whats repeatably and everything else to help find and eliminate a bug.   Something over there just screams "we are working harder, not smarter", and that for any project spells long term failure, guaranteed.

Mineserver hopefully will and should stand alone, no dependencies on an organizational structure outside of themselves influencing the path, dreams, and goals they have for this project, and even suggesting that they run anything in emulation just so that Bukkit can be compatible is crippling this project before it even has had a chance to learn how to walk.

Oh, and uh, Mineserver community...I talk ~alot~ so get your "tl;dr's" ready if you roll like that.  I will try to be concise, but i really can't help Cheesy


You can post and view bug reports for Bukkit here: http://leaky.bukkit.org/projects/bukkit

But let's not let the facts get in the way of your rant.

Cue Bukkit Fan Boi.

I actually speak to a few Big Server Admins who told me directly the same gripes...People who have an interest, like me, in running a large and successful server or series of servers - not people who code plugins with the nose up Bukkit's sphincter.

Oh, and how is that "leaky bukkit" project doing?

It did not help when for a week all the major server admins were posting about the log in and log out lag that everyone was experiencing, and in fact it was denied by Bukkit for a week.  

OH my gosh, lookee here - A bukkit plugin dev in a post throwing a major temper tantrum full of cursing et al and with no infractions placed on his account...I wonder why..  Anyways, he is pretty pissed - along with 10+ others over this bug being ignored by Bukkit - Leaky Bukkit - your great place to post bugs instead of ranting..

Go read and learn for yourself brown-nose boy:
 - http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/constant-1-30-minute-crashes.8212/
-  http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/high-cpu-usage.8295/

Now Mr. Minecart Maniaman, you go read those threads, tell your fellow Bukkit devs to stop cursing up a storm and to just enhance their calm aka "stop ranting" (as we know you don't like rants, but don't let that stop you from telling only me that) and to post it the Leaky Bukkit their problems instead of makign Bukkit look bad, mismanaged, and as usual completely unprofessional.

Ahh, yes, you won't have anything to say in that thread to someone speaking cursing up a storm like that - throwing a SuperRant in the forum you sit in most...But yet you will do your lil useless fan boi post and direct me to Leaky Bukkit of Bull.

It's called Leaky for a reason totally unreleated to what i believe was their original intentions.

But let's not let any tree's in the forest get in the way of you running straight ahead full speed.





I urge you to read your post. Does it read like a factual, rational, argument against bukkit? The only valid complaint I could discern from your post was that the service for Bukkit is poor - and I'd agree with that. The service for most FOSS is poor, because they are FOSS.

PS. I noticed the links on Bukkit's poor performance - I'd say that you are suffering from confirmation bias. Anyone's server that is running faster because of Bukkit is unlikely to post about it, but the hordes of people who can't set up a server properly, and cause them to run slowly post a lot. Hence the bias.
2  Mineserver / Plugins / Re: The new Plugin API on: March 14, 2011, 02:18:58 am
The best API would be some kind of integration with the new Bukkit server API. Then you'd instantly get access to 100's of plugins.

Instant access to 100's of plug-ins + Bukkit's horrible Quality Assurance, and attitude.

So far Mineserver seems leaps and bounds beyond Bukkit in maturity alone, and that by itself will reflect in the difference in professionalism that I believe will be reflected in the Mineserver project over Bukkit, which is pretty chaotic, immature, and totally oblivious to the needs of the community or server admins as demonstrated by the lack of any vector for the community of large servers that exist "herocraft, godcraft, etc..) to supply direct and critical feedback about bugs they are all experiencing to the developers at Bukkit - and that just does not work.

Taking a week to accept testimony AKA complaints from major servers complaining on a log-in/out lag bug is 6 days too many.  And nothing proves more of what I am saying than one simple glance at the Bukkit Forums main page - Not a single sub-forum for posting bugs. Oh but wait, you may say there is some JIRA or something like that...Sorry regular people don't ever follow those and the masses do not, so if you need to get the most information you make it easy for those with that information to give it you.  Yes it may be willy nilly and some idjits will just post "IT BROKE MY SERVER" - but many more of us will post the steps, the details, whats repeatably and everything else to help find and eliminate a bug.   Something over there just screams "we are working harder, not smarter", and that for any project spells long term failure, guaranteed.

Mineserver hopefully will and should stand alone, no dependencies on an organizational structure outside of themselves influencing the path, dreams, and goals they have for this project, and even suggesting that they run anything in emulation just so that Bukkit can be compatible is crippling this project before it even has had a chance to learn how to walk.

Oh, and uh, Mineserver community...I talk ~alot~ so get your "tl;dr's" ready if you roll like that.  I will try to be concise, but i really can't help Cheesy


You can post and view bug reports for Bukkit here: http://leaky.bukkit.org/projects/bukkit

But let's not let the facts get in the way of your rant.
3  Mineserver / Plugins / Re: The new Plugin API on: February 06, 2011, 09:37:09 am
In my opinion bridging to Java plugins would somehow defeat the purpose of Mineserver.
If i am not mistaken it is supposed to be a very lightweight and fast server, while Bukkit
is more like a mod of the original server.
I would rather like to see a feature-complete Mineserver, which is easy to add plugins to than one that is beaten into an interface just to meet compatibility with a bunch of stuff already done. I mean the whole idea of Mineserver was to create a complete re-write that is focussed on performance, so why should the devs bridge to plugins that are not really optimized for how Mineserver works?

I agree completely. I'd mourn if Mineserver tried to conform to someone else's arbitrary standards, and wasted potential on that.

But there's no reason we can't have our cake and eat it too. Plenty of plugin API for mineserver matches up 1 to 1 with Bukkit API, and would (I hesistate to use simple...) be possible to convert over without harm. I can't imagine most plugins harming performance by more than 20%, perhaps less if they were run in separate threads.

If at all, it is a thing to achieve when Mineserver has all caught up with the original Minecraft server.

Definitely, but now's as good of a time as any to bring it up.

It would be less work to simply port the plugins to c++

Port 250+ plugins would be less work than a creating a bridge between Bukkit and Mineserver?  Huh
There's really only a few plugins worth porting.  The rest are trivial and can be written in probably 5 minutes.

I'm not even going to give a response to such a ludicrous statement.
4  Mineserver / Plugins / Re: The new Plugin API on: January 29, 2011, 06:02:53 am
It would be less work to simply port the plugins to c++

Port 250+ plugins would be less work than a creating a bridge between Bukkit and Mineserver?  Huh
5  Mineserver / Plugins / Re: The new Plugin API on: January 25, 2011, 12:06:58 pm
This may not be very feasible because the API for bukkit is constantly changing.  I know it is still in development, but it would be very tedious to have to expose everything in the exact same way bukkit does.  Plus having this project rely on another project kind of defeats the purpose of this even existing.
MineServer would never be relying on another project, it'd be providing an optional plugin/wrapper to allow bukkit to work. You'd still be able to make mineserver as you'd see fit, and have the bukkit plugin do the heavy lifting.

Quote
As much as I hate to say it, a complete rewrite of the plugins would probably be faster than writing a very generic emulator, which would definitely be slow, and most likely pretty buggy.  Cross language communication between languages that aren't very similar (bytecode vs
machine code) is very troublesome.  Calling conventions get really screwy and it is just a mess.

Well yes, this is all true, but gaining access to potentially thousands of already working plugins would be huge. If mineserver is as fast as they claim (I'm sure it is) then the cost of extra communication would slow it some, but even 7-8x the java server is huge.
6  Mineserver / Plugins / Re: The new Plugin API on: January 24, 2011, 07:39:40 pm
We will have some wrapper plugin to enable the use of Bukkit at some point.. Problem is that Bukkit is Java and Mineserver is C++ Wink

I'm bukkit Plugin dev (see minecart mania), but have experience in c++, and realize that there will be a cost for language intercommunication. Perhaps plugins could run in aa separate thread to minimize the cost.

I think the thing that will make or break this project is plugins, so bukkit implementation could be just what this project needs to catch fire.
7  Mineserver / Plugins / Re: The new Plugin API on: January 24, 2011, 03:27:14 pm
The best API would be some kind of integration with the new Bukkit server API. Then you'd instantly get access to 100's of plugins.
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